Apr 20, 2026
#413 In this podcast
episode, Guy talked with Mark Gober about his drive to understand
the nature of reality, his view that society is pushed toward fear
and division, and his framing of this as “spiritual war.” Gober
recounted his conventional path (Princeton, investment banking at
UBS during the 2008 crisis, then a decade in intellectual property
consulting) and how witnessing corruption, followed by a 2016 “dark
night of the soul,” led him into research on psychedelics,
meditation, alternative health, and evidence for consciousness
beyond the brain (e.g., near-death experiences, UVA perceptual
studies, IONS). He described writing seven books (2018–2024),
launching the “Where Is My Mind” podcast, leaving a partner role to
pursue this work, and later expanding into politics/economics
during COVID, arguing government structure violates spiritual
principles and emphasizing discernment, inner work, intention, and
his ibogaine intentions.
About
Mark: Mark Gober is the author of the “Upside Down” series
of seven books—spanning the topics of consciousness, politics,
economics, UFOs, medicine, cosmology, and more. His first book, “An
End to Upside Down Thinking” (2018), won the IPPY award for best
science book of the year and was endorsed by researchers with
affiliations at Harvard, Princeton, UVA, and UCSF (among others).
He then wrote “An End to Upside Down Living” (2020), “An End to
Upside Down Liberty” (2021), “An End to Upside Down Contact”
(2022), “An End to the Upside Down Reset” (2023), “An End to Upside
Down Medicine” (2023); and “An End to the Upside Down Cosmos”
(2024). Mark is also the host of the 8-episode podcast series
“Where Is My Mind?”, released in 2019, which explores the
scientific evidence for telepathy, the afterlife, and more.
Additionally, since 2019, he has served on the board of the
Institute of Noetic Sciences. Previously, Mark was a partner at
Sherpa Technology Group in Silicon Valley and worked as an
investment banking analyst with UBS in New York. He has been named
one of IAM’s Strategy 300: The World’s Leading Intellectual
Property Strategists. Mark graduated magna cum laude from Princeton
University, where he wrote an award-winning thesis on Daniel
Kahneman’s Nobel Prize–winning “Prospect Theory” and was elected a
captain of Princeton’s Division I tennis team.
Key Points Discussed:
- (00:00) - You’re TRAPPED In A Hidden Spiritual War Rewiring Your Reality!
- (02:14) - Why Mark Is Passionate About Understanding Reality
- (02:36) - Are We Waking Up as a Species?
- (03:15) - Consciousness: Beyond the Brain
- (07:49) - Waking Up, Cleaning Up, Growing Up & Showing Up
- (09:38) - Mark's Background: Before the Spiritual Journey
- (11:26) - Investment Banking at UBS During the 2008 Financial Crisis
- (14:16) - Intellectual Property, Innovation & Seeing Corruption Firsthand
- (18:24) - Dark Night of the Soul & The Turning Point
- (23:00) - Reincarnation, Children's Past Lives & University of Virginia Research
- (24:13) - Writing His First Book & The "Where Is My Mind?" Podcast
- (26:41) - Leaving a Partner-Level Career to Follow His Purpose
- (29:04) - LIVE IN FLOW — Experience This Work in Person
- (30:26) - Spiritual War: Dark Forces & Intentional Suppression of Truth
- (31:33) - The Nag Hammadi Scriptures & Ancient Gnostic Texts
- (35:40) - COVID, Political Division & Writing "An End to Upside Down Liberty"
- (38:01) - Liberty, Statism & How Government Violates Spiritual Principles
- (45:01) - The Non-Aggression Principle & Natural Law
- (52:34) - How to Navigate a Dark World: Compassion With Discernment
How to Contact Mark
Gober:
www.markgober.com
About me:
My Instagram:
www.instagram.com/guyhlawrence/?hl=en
Guy's websites:
www.guylawrence.com.au
www.liveinflow.co